“Trust is the lubrication that makes organizations work.” — WARREN G. BENNIS
“When a train goes through a dark tunnel and it gets dark, you don’t throw away the ticket and jump off. You sit still and trust the engineer.” – CORRIE TEN BOOM
“Trust your own instinct. Your mistakes might as well be your own, instead of someone else’s.” – BILLY WILDER
When I originally created this blog this past April my primary motivation was to encourage candid dialogue among IBOs about topics and issues that concerned me in the business. The company was in the early months of a global business transformation and I hoped that open discussion of challenges that I and others perceived in the business would potentially lead to real world solutions and change. I was also hopeful that Amway and Quixtar’s executives would listen in on our discussions — and even participate in our discussions when appropriate — and that has happened from time to time. From day one this blog was intended to be a collaborative effort, open to original posts by other IBOs, and not centered around one IBO’s point of view or a particular business direction or outcome. That intention has been realized with frequent posts by “rdknyvr” and post-like comments by “Big Apple,” “IBOFightback,” and others.
My approach to posting about our business was different than anything that I had seen online to that time. Posts were theme- and issue-based; and initiated dialogue on numerous topics rather than only responding to issues after a problem had emerged publicly, or simply reporting business news. The approach has been highly effective, has led to hundreds of comments on many topics, and was eventually copied by other sites.
But you might ask, why was creating this blog so important to me? And that’s a good question. So if you don’t mind, allow me to answer it.
It was important simply because in my heart of hearts I didn’t believe in the business anymore. I didn’t believe I personally could honestly promote our business model to potential prospects in its state at the end of 2007 — as much as I wanted to. (As an aside, allow me to add that my challenges with the business had little to do with the issues that the TEAM debacle raised. In fact, I thought the TEAM approach was a big part of the problem.) Even though the company was in the first months of its global business transformation, I had heard the promise of “change” in the business before, and had been disappointed each time, so I had little real hope it would follow through. In short, I knew that if I was ever going to be able to confidently and honestly build the business there would have to be substantial changes in the business at a foundational level — the company would have to come through and prove to me it was serious about real, lasting change. I knew it was going to take a lot to bring me back into the fold, and in all candor, I held little hope it would happen. A lot had transpired over the years to undermine my belief in the company, its leadership, and the IBO leadership. There was a lot to overcome.
What were the challenges that disturbed me the most? What were the issues that would have to change for me to be able to honestly and confidently pursue building the business? They primarily fell into three areas:
The first area of concern was the lack of balance in the business in relation to the tool systems. I believed the tool systems had become the tail that wagged the dog. It is interesting to note that Orrin Woodward recently revealed that he never made more than $750,000 in Quixtar at the Executive Diamond level, yet Forbes.com stated a month ago that Orrin told it that he was on schedule to make $4 to $5 million this year alone from the tool support side of his MonaVie business, and that’s after lowering the price of his system tools when he joined MonaVie! So which business was he really in when he was in Quixtar?! Quixtar, or tools? It appears Quixtar was little more than a receptive host that the parasitic TEAM used to feed itself. And by the way, TEAM was not alone. Many tool systems had evolved far beyond their original purpose and now ruled the roost, particularly in terms of income, and often treated the company like a second class citizen. Rest assured, not all tool systems were equally culpable, but all were culpable on some level.
The second area of concern was the mismanagement of the Amway/Quixtar businesses by corporate leadership and the effect its mismanagement had had on its IBOs, its business opportunity, and its product lines. I held the company leadership personally responsible for allowing the tool systems to usurp so much business territory and to hijack the business far off its original course, often for reasons that allowed the company to be lazy in the marketplace and to serve its own interests. In all honesty, I’m still disappointed the company leadership has not apologized for its failure in this area. The company’s failure at this point was more than a “mistake” in my opinion (as they’ve often called it). One simple example (there are many others) was the retail customer price of most products in 2007 and the company’s retail customer sales volume. The figures revealed during the TEAM court case revealed that only 3.5% of the company’s U.S. volume was retail customer volume. But why should the company care? It was getting its billion dollar plus sales revenue from the IBOs and that was all that mattered. Otherwise wouldn’t they would have taken steps to initiate change in this area well before mid-2007? And why should the system leaders care? They were deriving a substantial portion of their income from the IBOs participating in their systems and that was what mattered most. Besides it was far easier to generate income from business support materials and functions than to earn income from developing business sales volume with downline IBOs.
The critical role of tool income to IBO leaders in the business was driven home to me in the summer of 2007 when numerous business leaders quickly left the business as soon as it became clear their substantial tool incomes were being threatened. They saw the writing on the wall. Knowing it was far easier to generate substantial tool income quickly than business income, they just weren’t willing to get back to having to truly build the business they said they were building all along. I sometimes think tool purchases by new IBOs are just the tool systems’ back door version of product front loading, but with tools the only ones who benefit are the tool system leaders. Interestingly, the word on the street from Amway/Quixtar corporate insiders is that the corporation has been shocked to see how resistant the tool systems have been to having their role in the business reevaluated and somewhat diminished, and I’m sure much of that resistance has been due to the tool income issue. But recent events in the UK and the US have made it clear to Amway Global that the tool system dynamic and the retail customer dynamic had to change — dramatically and soon. As the Alticor Media Blog put it, “Never Again!” I agree.
The third area of concern was the IBOs themselves. I believed that many IBOs, myself included, had acted irrationally, irresponsibly, and immaturely by allowing the tool systems to sell us a bill of goods on their so-called “proven” systems; and the company to sell us overpriced products with limited customer potential. If an airline had a proven safety record comparable to the tool systems’ proven success record in developing profitable IBOs, it would have been shut down long, long ago. And the company’s retail customer development with its products and retail pricing was no better. The attitude of many IBOs, often encouraged by system leadership’s “Are you a team player?” mantra, appeared to be “Question nothing, believe everything.” I’m convinced a far better approach for IBOs would have been to “Trust, but verify.” No one should blindly follow anyone anywhere. By the way, if you only read a couple of books a year (hopefully more), this year I’d recommend making one of those books Predictably Irrational: The Hidden Forces That Shape Our Decisions by Dan Ariely. It will convince you of the importance of “trust, but verify.” All IBOs would be well-served to read it at the earliest opportunity.
Another new book offers some interesting insights along similar lines to Predictably Irrational. Ori and Rom Brafman, in their new release Sway: The Irresistable Pull of Irrational Behavior, make a number of intriguing points. For example, why would a seasoned pilot, the head of KLM’s safety program, ignore his co-pilot and attempt a takeoff in dense fog with 55 tons of fuel (far more than the allowable limit for his intended flight) at an unfamiliar airport, Tenerife — causing the worst air disaster in history? And why would the co-pilot, who had followed procedure exactly when he reminded his captain that the flight had not been cleared for takeoff, fail to repeat his warning when the pilot pressed ahead anyway? The collision at Tenarife airport cost the lives of 583 people. Using that accident as their starting point, the Brafman brothers explore the psychological forces that cause people to take large risks to avoid small losses, to judge people and situations by first impressions despite subsequent inconsistent evidence, and to ignore objections from dissenters.
One of the most interesting aspects of the book is the most reassuring in regard to the purposes of this blog. Research reveals that groups often make better decisions when there’s a “blocker” or “dissenter” present — even if that person dissents for the wrong reasons. The authors describe a classic experiment in which test subjects are led to believe they are being tested for their visual skills: three lines of different lengths are to be matched to a fourth line. The differences in line length are clearly obvious, so there is plainly only one correct answer. However, if you put the real test subject in a room with several actors who pretend to be test subjects, but actually have been instructed to give an obviously wrong answer, most subjects in the experiment will behave in a completely irrational manner and agree with the other test “subjects” that lines that are clearly different in length are exactly the same. But if an actor playing “blocker” is added to the mix and points out that the group is wrong, the subject then feels free to disagree and usually makes the right choice. Interestingly, this is true even if the “blocker” makes a different “wrong” choice by picking two other lines of plainly different lengths. What this experiment says to the business and political world is that organizations that allow no dissent, or demean dissenters, are likely to perform about as well as that ill-fated flight at Tenerife. It also implies that the mass mind is often intimidating, a good reason for strong checks and balances in this business. As an aside, pilots at Southwest and other airlines are now trained to avoid the disaster that happened at Tenerife. Pilots are taught to listen to objections from other crew members, and crew members are trained to communicate those objections in a way that enables the pilot to respond quickly and correctly.
But back to my three areas of concern. Obviously, there was plenty of blame to go around in mid-2007, and it wasn’t limited to one part of the business or any one group of people or IBOs. Everyone, and I mean everyone, myself included, was culpable. Fortunately, last summer the company promised that big changes were coming and a complete business transformation was in the works. Having heard that unfulfilled promise before, I began to shape my vision for a blog like this one, an online “coffeehouse” to discuss my perception of what shape IBOs like me might want that business transformation to take if in fact the company was truly serious this time.
So where do I stand today in relation to my 2007 concerns?
Today I am convinced that the company is serious about taking its business back and creating a more appropriate balance between the corporation and the tool systems (although I would not be surprised if somewhere down the road the systems’ role is limited to motivation only — or they no longer exist at all). As I stated earlier, the UK and US issues (and those in other countries) have made it clear that the status quo was unworkable. Where that unworkability takes us all long-term remains to be seen. However, there is absolutely nothing going on in the corporate training arena for product knowledge and retailing (Quixtar University and related) that is not easily transferable by the corporation to the training arena for building a network of IBOs — and it could likely be offered at far less cost to IBOs. Important factors such as “identification and association” would still be best served by upline IBOs, but would not require the costs associated with them in the current system approach. Years ago when the company offered business training materials they were dramatically less expensive than system produced BSMs, over 50% less. I look forward to a return to those days and enhanced new IBO profitability. The current state of the business in the tool system and business support materials area generates confidence in me that things are going to be positively different in the months and years to come.
Today the focus on new product offerings in health and wellness — for example, Simply Nutrilite — and the pricing that goes with them are all customer driven. The new Gensona offerings are leading edge and can be expected to be even more diverse over time. The Ribbon Gift program is nothing less than terrific. The above-mentioned Quixtar University puts a foundation under every product offering the company has. In addition, the continued sponsorship of top-notch professional athletes will lead to even greater awareness of our company and our products in the public at-large.
Today the public “coming out party” of Amway Global in print and media ads and other venues has convinced me the company is serious about building, maintaining, and monitoring its public and internet image and reputation — and this will serve the needs of IBOs increasingly well. Everything the company is doing in this arena is first rate and bodes well for the future of all IBOs. But it is important for IBOs, and myself in particular, not to waste the opportunity Amway Global is giving us in this area today. This is a real opportunity for all of us, not just a pig in a pretty dress.
I’ve said all that to say this: Today I believe I could honestly promote our business to prospects without any serious reservations — and I intend to do just that. There are still a few areas where I’d like to see some changes implemented, but they are not deal breakers for me. Thus, in the coming months and years I intend to work diligently to build a Diamond level business outside of a system context. At the same time I intend to keep the company’s hand to the fire from time to time regarding those few critical issues that I still consider important and worth reevaluating. Those issues still critical to me are:
1. The curiosity approach (or as some call it in other variations, the Professional Business Approach). I personally believe the curiosity approach should be banned outright. It creates far more issues than it solves — and none of them are positive. Lack of trust, the potential for deceit, misrepresentation, half-truths, and worse, all come into play with the curiosity approach, and the general public hates it. It is time to do away with it once and for all. Amway needs a clear and upfront image and reputation, not one based on how much information we can hide from a prospect while we dance away in doublespeak. I have no problem with explaining the business in full at an appropriate time when it can be explained properly, but I have a big problem with an opaque response to a direct question. In his recent autobiography/success tome Get In The Game, highly respected baseball Hall of Famer and former Baltimore Oriole Cal Ripken, Jr. wrote:
“Both my parents were as honest as the day is long. My mother just wouldn’t tolerate dishonesty of any sort. Dad [Note: Cal Ripken, Sr. was a former manager of the Baltimore Orioles] was also as straight a shooter as they come. If you asked him a question, you got a direct answer. He had a strong sense of right versus wrong. And if he thought something was wrong, believe me, you heard about it. Dad also tended not to mince words. Nor would he stay quiet just to avoid telling you bad news.
So, just as with the values of hard work and excellence, my parents raised me to be honest and to have integrity. Because of them, I believe I grew up to be a sincere and serious-minded adult. But how do honesty and integrity help a person persevere? Personally, I think it has something to do with trust.
Honesty breeds trust in others. Straight shooters get more work, are appreciated more, and are almost always respected. On the other hand, dishonest people almost never garner universal respect. As with honesty, integrity also breeds trust. If people believe you have strong principles, are sound in mind and body, and are incorruptible, they’ll choose to work with you over others.
You cannot persevere in any organization without the trust of others. If an executive doesn’t trust you, you can be out of a job in the blink of an eye. If coworkers don’t trust you, they’ll complain about you behind your back. And too much of that can also lead to a loss job. It’s far better to be trusted by the people with whom you work and associate. But, as the adage goes, trust has to be earned. Only over a sustained period can people come to count on you. You have to demonstrate your honesty and integrity over and over. And you can’t slip up — not even once. If you do, you’ll have to start all over again. In that case, it’s doubly difficult to regain a person’s respect and esteem. Therefore, it always wise to start out being straight with people from day one. Let them know right from the start that you can be counted on…“
2. Selective openness, honesty, and transparency. When Steve Lieberman announced the global business transformation he stated the company was committed to “openness, honesty, and transparency.” Yet certain outcomes since his announcement have led me to believe Steve should have said “selective” openness, honesty, and transparency. I’ve posted numerous posts on this topic in the past so I won’t rehash them here, but let it suffice for me to state the company could do a better job in the areas of openness and transparency. When Amway Global gets these areas right I honestly believe it will be on the doorstep of getting everything right.
3. The arbitration clause. I believe in the arbitration clause. It can benefit both sides in a dispute, but not if its a one-sided arbitration process in which the company holds all the cards. A one-sided arbitration process is just what the several courts have said it is: unconscionable. Amway Global’s owners are Christian men who hold to Christian principles of fair and equitable dealing. They should know better. Fix it guys. Now. Enough said.
4. The non-compete clause. I understand and accept some of the solid reasons for the non-compete clause, and can see its value in protecting the integrity of our businesses, particularly in relation to IBOs at a certain level in the business, say Platinum and above. But in its current form it is nothing less than overkill, and it creates a lot of ill will. Reevaluate it and apply only it to those who really have something at stake in the business, as I said, perhaps IBOs at Platinum and above. And like the arbitration clause issue above, do it now. I’m not particularly excited about asking my new IBO to sign an IBO agreement with these two clauses in their current form. So fix it and ask all IBOs to sign a new contract. The sooner the better.
5. The pricing of core line products. The company clearly needs to reset the price of some of its existing core line products to a more competitive retail market price. Current pricing assumes IBOs are the paying customer and real target market. Yes, incomes might drop as the BV drops. However, with the increased emphasis on retailing in the business, and the increase in retailing that should occur with reasonable price adjustments, over both the short term and intermediate term, incomes should actually rise — particularly for those actively building balanced businesses that include a strong customer component. Quality, overpriced products don’t create any buzz in the market; but quality, competitively priced products do.
6. The pricing of logo clothing and other items used to promote the business. While this is not nearly as important as the other issues as a general matter, it is an important philosophical issue for me. If the company wants the tool systems to reduce the price of tools (and it does), the company should also reduce the price of clothing using the company name or logo, and other items and literature used to promote the business to customers and prospects. As a philosophical matter I do not believe materials or items used to promote the business should be a high margin profit center. If an IBO can only earn income through the personal and downline sale of products, the company should make the same commitment. IBOs are the company’s partners and its wholesale customers. We should not be treated as retail customers on any level, particularly when we are purchasing clothing with the Nutrilite or Artistry logos to promote and personally advertise our business and its products, for which Amway Global benefits as well. I don’t believe an IBO should have to pay a premium to purchase a company hat, shirt, or jacket to promote his or her involvement with the business. In the most recent “Achieve” magazine Steve Van Andel and Doug DeVos asked IBOs to make their friends and acquaintances aware of their involvement in the business. To that end the company should be going out of its way to offer clothing and literature that allows us to do just that as inexpensively as possible. Brochures that IBOs use to present the business and promote the products should not be retail priced items. The Quixtar Business Opportunity Brochure is priced very well. But the price of most of the Nutrilite logo clothing is not. (XS Energy’s clothing is full retail as well.) In Steve Van Andel’s recent talk at Diamond Club he stated that the company recognizes that it is really our “upline.” That should mean that the company and IBOs make money the same way, the “old-fashioned way,” moving products to customers. Let’s keep it that way.
As I look back at it, that’s a pretty short list of issues. That tells me the company has come a long way since mid-2007. It also tells me that it’s time to get to work.
When I first heard Steve Lieberman’s promise of a global Amway business tranformation in the summer of 2007 my first thought was that I had heard all this before — and it was always an empty promise. But today it has become clear that Steve Van Andel, Doug DeVos, and Steve Lieberman really meant it this time, that the promises of 2007 are real. Recently the company began a series of print and media ads around the “Now You Know” theme, geared toward creating awareness of our brand, products, and our business in the mind of the public. For IBOs like me though the company had to go much further than brand awareness, for as I stated at the start of this post, I personally can’t promote a business model that I honestly don’t believe in. Thankfully, the promises of real change that the company has continued to keep over the past year have begun to restore my belief in the company, its leadership, and its future. I am beginning to believe the company is going to follow through and create a business we can all be publicly proud of and place our trust in. And that leads me to my final thought.
Amway Global: “Now I Know.” I not only know what the company is doing today, I also have a better sense of why the company is doing it and how the company is going about it. More importantly, today I believe more deeply in the company and can more readily embrace it and its goals.
So folks, it’s time for me to get to work. You’ll be hearing from me.
Speaking of Amway, how have the recent changes in Quixtar North America and Amway Global affected your belief in the business and your future in it?
51 Responses to “Amway Global: “Now I Know””
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August 13th, 2008 at 4:37 am
[…] Speaking of Amway, System Chuck Lia, the blog administrator on the Speaking of Amway web site published a well-written article on his past concerns about the Amway opportunity and where he sees it and his business going in the […]
August 13th, 2008 at 9:33 am
Very thoughtful post Chuck, and with your almost 36 years around the business, you would know whereof you speak.
August 13th, 2008 at 11:25 am
I too have my doubts about Amway’s openness. The Amway has not posted on Alticor Media Blog since March 18. That is five months ago.
When I go to the site, I see a three month old message from May 26 stating that my comments are still “awaiting moderation.” Does it take three months to moderate my comments?
John McCain and Barak Obama can vet potential VP candidates in a matter of weeks. I read in the news this week that a 97year old Chinese woman and her grandson bicycled nearly 2000 miles to the Olympics. It took them 5 weeks. Yet in 3 months, Amway cannot even moderate one comment on their corporate website?
(rdk, I know you have claimed that one person at the Alticor Media Blog has been off the job, suffering from cancer. Our hearts and prayers go out to this person. But Amway is a multi-billion dollar compay and West Michigan is in a recession. The corporation could fill any job it wants to almost immediately. I remember Jody Victor saying from stage one time, “If you want to know how fast you can be replaced on your job, stick your finger in a glass of water, pull it out and see how fast the hole disappears.” Even more so in this economy. The problem is at the upper-management level.)
August 13th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Well Michman, the Alticor Media Blog is controlled through Alticor, which is in a different building from Amway Global/Quixtar, and different PR department. Given how busy everyone at the Corp is with higher priority initiatives including vetting all the Systems for Accreditation, all the different Spotlight Showcase events, developing new courses at Quixtar U, etc., it’s not surprising that some things get a lower priority. What I do note is that the Opportunity Zone has been very active and responsive, and not just with fluff postings. To be honest, most of the postings over at the Alticor blog were turning it into a sewer (your’s excepted of course) and disabled it as an effective voice.
What Chuck has laid out above in a very measured and balanced way is his view of the overall mission-critical progress Amway Global is making. Chuck’s been around the business since 1972, he tells me, so he’s seen it at its high points and low points. And when he says it’s definitely changing for the better, and has re-inspired his commitment to build, that carries water for me.
August 13th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Great article Chuck. You very well spoke about the changes that every IBO should be looking for, except the Top Level who are making Loads of money from tools and system. Hope Alticor management take some hints from this too, it is going to be very critical change that is required for the business to survive. They have to take this bitter pill to kill the virus once and for all.
August 13th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Very well thought out(and long anticipated:)) post Chuck!
August 13th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Chuck wrote: When I first heard Steve Lieberman’s promise of a global Amway business tranformation in the summer of 2007 my first thought was that I had heard all this before — and it was always an empty promise. But today it has become clear that Steve Van Andel, Doug DeVos, and Steve Lieberman really meant it this time, that the promises of 2007 are real.
It will take more than a national ad campaign for many people to believe that the “transformation” is real.
For me, they need to stop the legal tactics. The corporate rallying cry for the last year has been “SUE you on the beaches of the world.” And when sued by ibos, their tactics are “deny… delay… deny… delay.”
Secondly, they need to step up to the plate on disclosure. Who are the real QUALIFIED Diamonds? How about making public the corporation’s facts concerning accredidation? What groups are in the most compliance, and which are the ones with the most problems?
Lastly, STOP USING AN ILLEGAL IBO AGREEMENT! The IBO agreement was found to be illegal in FIVE courts around the nation. And the company continues to use it to this day.
An INDEPENDENT IBO association is surely needed. The IBOAI does not represent rank and file IBOs and is not helping to address the issues surrounding the continued illegal actions by Amway.
August 13th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Michman, as Chuck points out in his piece — and I’m not trying to speak for him but he’s probably out either giving a tennis lesson or showing a plan — the above are issues, but not deal breakers for those of us who are looking for strong fundamentals and changes that enable balanced, productive, profitable businesses to be built. For that, you don’t need to know who is still qualifying at what pin levels — we know some aren’t requalified, so what; Chuck has already mentioned the need to finish revising the Arbitration and Non-compete clauses, and if you don’t like the IBOAI, that still is not a roadblock to building your own successful business. Leave ‘em behind, just like the Systems. And for those who are happy with their system subcriptions, ain’t freedom of choice wonderful… unless you are a nanny-state supporter who thinks everyone else is to dumb to make intelligent choices on their own.
August 13th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
An independent IBO association does not equate to some kind of “nanny state” government intervention. It would simply be a tool for non-profitable, non-wealthy IBOs to use when they have legal issues with Amway.
One of those legal issues may be Amway’s continued use of an illegal ibo agreement. What non–profitable ibo is going to enter into an expensive and lengthy “loser pay” arbitration process with a billion dollar corporation? What profitable ibo is going to pay for up to five years of arbitration to collect a bonus they feel they deserve but is being withheld by Amway?
I own a franchise. There is a franchise owners association that helps us with the inevitable conflicts we have with the franchisor.
IBOs have a need legal questions answered regarding Amway AND their tool selling LOA.
But they have no such help. They are on their own.
August 13th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Hi Mich Man -
I share your sentiments regarding the IBO contract and I am hopeful the company will make the necessary changes soon. The courts will likely shape the form that the arbitration and non-compete clause changes take and I am willing to wait for that to take place. If they are ultimately and finally declared unconscionable or unenforceable they will obviously have to be reworked. I’d just like to see that review and rework take place now rather than later.
I see a lot of changes coming, changes that will likely affect many aspects of the business, including the IBOAI. Perhaps its time to have to have a more diverse IBOAI Board in terms of pin levels. A few of the current Board members aren’t even actively building the business today. The business interests of IBOs might be better served by having 25% to 50% of the Board members reserved for IBOs at pin levels below Diamond serving two year terms. I have to think doing so would create more balance on the Board and also better develop future IBO leaders.
The TEAM debacle was an unusual situation. The best way for the company to avoid litigation issues is to fix the primary issues the business faces, some of which I discuss in this post. Everyone needs to see legal entanglements as a lose-lose proposition on all fronts. Even when you win, you lose.
August 14th, 2008 at 1:21 am
Excellent post Chuck. It’s interesting that your views are applauded by both promoters and detractors of the Amway business.
Regarding the curiosity approach issue–that’s a tough one. I think it’s okay to use a curiosity approach, and if the prospect agrees to meet with you to see the whole plan without questions, great. But if the prospect specifically asks for the name of the business, then you’re right Chuck, we should say Quixtar or Amway. I say it’s tough because the approach that’s taking some Systems by storm right now (and getting great results) is the QI (Qualifying Interview) which is a curiosity approach. We do enough name dropping of big companies (Partner Stores and catalog brands) and hot product categories during the QI, that hopefully they don’t ask for the name of our business at this stage. I say “hopefully” because I think most of us want to guide the prospect through gathering information, rather than giving them the Quixtar or Amway name up front, and leaving them free to Google. The QI system started out in the Winters’ organization in the late ’80’s or early ’90’s, and then was adopted by the entire Yager Group within the last year and a half. Quixtar endorses this procedure in the accreditation literature under the heading Accuracy: “Concept or qualifying materials do not require the use of Quixtar (soon to be Amway Global). A concept piece is one designed to determine the level of interest in a business opportunity without showing the Quixtar IBO Compensation Plan …” This clearly describes the QI.
August 14th, 2008 at 1:57 am
Hmmm… AJ, I would argue that the QI is exactly where you need to bring out the name of our company. Everything you say above tells me your system is still trying to hide from the “A” word, and it sounds like they’ve conned the Corp into going along with it. I would challenge the approach that drops the names of national brands in order to gain more credibility with the prospect. Why would you say, above, “… hopefully they don’t ask for the name of our business at this stage.” You’re leading with just the business opportunity, aren’t you.
And by the way, the Quixtar/Amway Global statement you gave above actually defines what the exempt concept piece is… it’s not showing the compensation plan.
The QI is nothing more than standard sales ‘best practice’ approach… find out the potential prospect’s needs before you trot out a product and blast them with all the marketing bullets you’ve been provided with. And then present to their needs. It’s going to be a strange and stunned prospect indeed who doesn’t ask at the QI stage “what’s the company you’re representing, talking about?” And the slightest whiff of a dodge on that question is going to immediately move you into deception ground that Chuck notes above.
August 14th, 2008 at 2:01 am
AJ and others,
On this point, also go read Robin Lymes comment on The Real Quixtar Blog at Opportunity Zone entitled, “I Am Amway Global. Are You?”
http://www.realquixtarblog.com/2008/08/13/I-am-Amway-Global-Are-you.aspx
August 14th, 2008 at 2:32 am
RDK wrote in #12 “And the slightest whiff of a dodge on that question (the name of our business) is going to immediately move you into deception ground that Chuck notes above.”
I agree. I’m uncomfortable with some teaching and tactics. Some teaching is excellent as well. That’s why I’ve mostly been focusing on marketing products while I get a lot of this stuff sorted out in my head. Jim Rohn, one of my favorite motivational speakers lately, who started out his business career in network marketing, said, “Be a student, not a follower.”
August 14th, 2008 at 2:40 am
I forgot to add, that’s pretty cool that Robin Lymes wrote a post inspired by Chuck’s post here. Thanks for the link RDK!
August 14th, 2008 at 8:30 am
RDK wrote in #12 “And the slightest whiff of a dodge on that question (the name of our business) is going to immediately move you into deception ground that Chuck notes above.”
rdk, aj…. I get prospected on a regular basis. I can ususally tell it’s Amway by the time their first four words get out of their mouth.
I ask point blank if this is Amway/Quixtar. If they look away, touch their nose and hesitate, I know immediately that they are in ‘the business.’ And I also know that they don’t really believe in what they are doing.
August 14th, 2008 at 8:40 am
Chuck, I hope, for the sake of people like you, that Amway is serious about making significant changes.
Best to you in this endeavor.
August 14th, 2008 at 9:33 am
Michman, you’re exactly right. What if they were to say to you with a positive smile, YES, it is Amway… what do you know about Amway? and then shut up. In your case they might get an earful (lol) but what if — and AJ I would address this to you — the prospector were to let the prospectee spill out everything they know and just listen? It could range from ‘I’ve never heard of it’ to some of the negs you read on the net. But let them talk. Then via questioning, see if they’re open to having a misconception corrected (ie. it’s a soap company, but I don’t know how many you’d find this year with that idea, after all the ads the Corp is putting out) or if they are absolutely not interested, just thank them for their time and change the subject. What if the prospector were to have gotten product training (Quixtar U, product info materials from the website) in an area of interest — step #2 at N21 is ’specialize and develop clients’ (#1 is buy your own products, #3 is build a team, ie. the network piece) — and then move the conversation to a product area that they are personally thrilled and turned on by? Most people who are come across as turned off to “Amway” are turned off to Amway as a business opportunity, but not necessarily as a source of a product they may want, if they haven’t been turned off by a dodgey reply in the QI “phase.”
August 14th, 2008 at 10:18 am
PAYBACK TIME
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/08/boxer_bullies_senates_birth_do.html
This is one reason why I believe that Amway Global is taking change seriously, from the ‘buy from yourself’ model which IBOFB and others say is perfectly fine to a model which emphasizes, and indeed requires — a focus on genuine retail sales (at whatever you define as ‘retail price’) to non-IBO Customers.
August 14th, 2008 at 10:29 am
I wish I could be contacted by one person who had the guts to say “This is Amway and these are the reasons I am building this business…”
Anyway… I think many prospects have come to realize over the last 30 years that Amway is more than a soap company.
In fact, I would wager that a large amount of prospects are former distributors/ibos. They all know about the diverse product line. Their concerns are going to revolve around system/LOA issues.
The question regarding these people is this: What do you say to THEM to make them believe that things have REALLY changed? That there really is a change in the status quo. That things really ARE going to be different? (especially after they constantly heard phrases like “things are better today than they ever have been” as they see Diamonds/Emeralds/Platinums quitting).
What is Amway doing to make sure that the system abuses will stop?
August 14th, 2008 at 11:03 am
#20 MichMan -
I am going to say that today “I am Amway.” I am going to say that I don’t believe in any approach to the business except for a very direct and straightforward one. I am going to learn how to answer prospects’ questions in a direct, clear, rational, and winsome manner. And I am going to teach my IBOs to do the same. If enough of us start doing that we will become the new Amway. No more doublespeak, no more nonsense — just straightforward and honest communication of the merits of the business and why we are building it.
As for your desire to “be contacted by one person who had the guts to say ‘This is Amway and these are the reasons I am building this business…’” it’s a shame you don’t live in Atlanta. If you did and you were around me you would hear that every time the topic comes up. All of my friends know I am in Amway, know about the issues that the company faces today, know about this blog, and still want to know how I am doing. Cal Ripken was right on the money. People just want us to be straight with them from day one. And if all of us do just that, people’s perception of the business will change over time. It won’t be today and it won’t be tomorrow, but it will come to pass.
August 14th, 2008 at 11:06 am
MichMan -
The company is doing a lot to rein in the systems, and trust me, the systems aren’t happy about it. The process may take several years, but it will happen. The systems may not be gone, but whatever their future role, it will be far more in line with the company’s long term goals than it was in the past.
August 14th, 2008 at 11:12 am
MichMan -
As for all the Diamonds, Emeralds, and Platinums quitting, things may have to take that direction for a period of time to get the entire IBO field force in line with the direction the company wants to take in the future. It is not uncommon for there to be movement and changes within an organization when a professional sports team, or a church, or an institution of higher learning — or a network marketing company like Amway — decides to set a new course, a new direction for itself. Some people embrace the new vision, some don’t. Those that do, likely stay on and get their oar in the water. Those that don’t go looking for a new lake and a new boat. That’s life. Hopefully all parties find the right situation for themselves long-term.
August 14th, 2008 at 11:53 am
RDK #18,
I have experienced teaching from my System/LOA that includes asking the prospect questions regarding her experience with Amway/Quixtar/MLM. I would feel really stupid if I ever tried to dodge the question, “Is it Amway?” and the prospect replied, “Well I’ve been considering joining a company such as Amway. I’ve been reading some books on wealth-building and the author highly recommends starting an MLM business.” I guess the only thing some Systems’ teaching is in conflict with the beliefs on this thread is the proper timing for full disclosure. It comes down to arming the new person. Since the new person usually isn’t equipped to deal with certain questions or objections, the Systems have developed a prospecting approach that reduces the likelihood for certain questions or objections coming up. These are handled when the Compensation Plan is presented. However, as we’ve already said, the answer to the question, “Is it Amway/Quixtar/MLM/Network Marketing?” is simply “yes”.
August 14th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
AJ, what’s the problem with equipping the new person with “YES, THIS IS AMWAY?” It takes more “training” to teach the work-arounds and dodges than it does to be straighforward and pass the honesty test regardless of whether people want to take the next step with you. The people who have had to develop the “work-arounds” are the same ones who have contributed to screwing up the name Amway in the first place. The Big Apple documented this pretty well on earlier posts here as well as at IBOFB’s site before the archived stuff blew up.
The only conflict, I would assert, between some systems’ teaching and this thread is that this thread is following the Corp’s leading as closely as possible… if there’s a disconnect or cognitive dissonance with what Chuck is saying, it may actually be a dissonance between the Corp and the System, not this thread.
August 14th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
By the way, I’m excited that my System/LOA has been putting out a lot of great product-specific sales training lately. Our conference calls are all pure product information and marketing, and they often include speakers from Quixtar/Amway Global and reps from our affiliates like XS and Chevron (the maker of our XLP fuel additive). Our monthly seminars have been expanded to devote more time to products and sales training. There’s a lot less controversy around selling great products to customers.
August 14th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
RDK #25, I hope I’m coming across in agreement with you, because that’s where I stand. I’m trying to think through the issue and understand different points of view. I think I can successfully integrate the System with independent thinking. Thanks for all your great feedback and also for providing all the resources for Personalized Health on the other posts.
August 14th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
In the world of business, each individual business fits into a industry. Ours is Direct Selling. The video in the right column of this link not only explains our industry but includes several frames of our products (SA8) and around the 1:20 mark you might notice a familiar leader on the on the phone while driving.
http://www.directselling411.com/
Is it time to admit what industry we’re in and get on with our particular features and benefits that align with the incentives of industry we are a part of?
August 14th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
umm … huh? What the heck has Barbara Boxed and Ted Stevens got to do with a BFYTODS model? Are you seriously equating Senator Stevens alleged (and I used that word advisedly) corruption and kickbacks with a model where people pay a membership fee to get a discount?
Give me a break.
And I don’t think the BFYTODS is “perfectly fine” - I think it’s dumb business.
As for the rest of the post, as far as I’m concerned the whole issue comes down to pride, something I posted on back in November 1996 - A message to Quixtar, Inc from Amway Australia
We need to be proud of who we are and what we do - in particular, those operating professional businesses need to be proud of what they do and Amway. The more the name gets associated with these people, in my opinion the majority of successful IBOs, the better the reputation.
Amway has to help in that transformation, and one MAJOR step as mentioned is in the logoware. Here in Europe the logoware is limited and *extremely* pricy. Last christmas for example there was an espring paperweight. A piece of glass with an E frosted on. They’re still available - more than US$60! - and I think the price has dropped from what they were originally worth.
Apart from paper bags and a flag, there’s nothing I can buy with Amway on it. An expensive fleece pullover with Nutrilite on it, and an Artistry umbrella.
And people are skeptical of the brands because they’ve never heard of them. There’s thousands of walking billboards available, if only Amway would let us do it at a reasonable price.
August 14th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
#29 - ibofightback -
I think “rdknyvr” may have been pointing to the fact that when you have a business that has been strongly linked to the Republican Party, as Amway has long been linked due to Rich and Jay’s longstanding political commitments, when and if the Democrats get control of things this fall and we perchance find ourselves in need of political capital, paybacks may be on the way. For example, the Pokorney case may end up in the Ninth District Court of Appeals, which any Californian (BTW, Nancy Pelosi’s state) can tell you is the most liberal appeals court in America. That would likely not be a good scene. A few times in the past the company has used its political capital to its benefit when the need arose. That may not be so easy if there is a change in the White House and the general political climate here.
August 14th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
#29 ibofightback -
My experience with most IBO leaders is that most people in their non-IBO circle of friends have no idea what they do. If, in fact, the issue is pride in the business as you say (and I’m inclined to agree with you that that is an important aspect of the problem), shouldn’t the lead and example for displaying that pride in the business come from IBO leaders? I cannot remember (if it has ever happened) the last time I heard an IBO at Platinum or above, Diamonds included (and I’ve been around more than my share), tell a non-IBO in any public, non-business setting that he or she was associated with Quixtar or Amway. I have heard tons of verbal tap dancing though.
August 14th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
IBOFB #29, Chuck Lia #30
My comment intended no comparison to the corruption of Ted Stevens or Barbara Boxer. The”payback” potential for Amway in a scenario where all three “legs” of the US government might be under majority Democratic control was exactly what I was pointing at (as Chuck pointed out).
Perhaps I’ve misunderstood some of your comments before, but it seemed that whenever someone would mount a criticism of the low level of retail sales, and that most IBOs are ‘buying from themselves’ you (IBOFB) seemed to reply somewhat defensively by structuring arguments which palliated that practice, and pointing out that the politically appointed and therefore controlled FTC has ruled — administratively — that as long as purchasing is for legitimate personal consumption, the business model of buying from yourself as an IBO was legal, even if we agree it’s not good business practice, ie. legal but foolish.
The article only indicates the Democrat’s propensity to “pay back” (when they have the power) those who have opposed them in the past. Most big corporations donate to both political parties and candidates. Rich and Jay, by virtue of their convictions, donated mostly to only one party, although in his book ‘An Enterprising Life’ Jay did say he would vote Democrat if they supported certain principles (p. 173 in the chapter, ‘Always A Republican?’).
It’s interesting, as a related aside to the Cal Ripken points Chuck made, that Alaska politics (Ted Steven’s home state) has been rife with corruption and also controlled by the Republicans… until recently when upstart Republican Sarah Palin (Sara ‘Barracuda’ was her high school basketball nickname) became governor and has performed chainsaw surgery on the corruption in her own party. It’s no wonder that she now enjoys the highest approval ratings of ANY governor in the US at 95%.
That should say something about the applicability of forthrightness, honesty and unwillingness to tolerate any form of prevarication in any sphere of activity — whether politics or direct sales business models. And that’s where I see strong evidence that Steve Van Andel and Doug DeVos are taking the company forward, implementing ‘best practice’ before they have to, and setting new business standards for the direct sales industry.
And that’s what gives me reason to build with confidence, regardless of System recalcitrance regarding these changes.
August 14th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Not saying that I’m a trendsetter or anything, but way back in 2004 I wrote about my Straight Forward Approach.
http://www.ontheroadwithdave.com/2004/12/straight-forward-approach_10.html
and then reprinted it for the Quixtar Blog crowd at
http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/archives/2005/03/no_doubt.php
The comments at that blog were lengthy about the approach and the fact that it should be starightforward even then…before the new Transition was even a germ of an idea.
Dave
August 14th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
#3 Dave -
We all know you are a trendsetter….
There have been a lot of people who have spoken up over the years about the curiosity approach, including Rich DeVos himself. (He was not a fan of it, by the way.) The challenge has been that IBO leadership was committed to it and they had the greatest leverage over IBOs. The straightforward approach never seemed to gather much traction because most IBOs were reluctant to say the “A” word and deal with the initial negativity they expected to follow. But when we have a compelling story to tell, some people, not all obviously, will be willing to hear us out. And over time, our forthrightness will gather greater credibility for us and greater traction in the marketplace.
BTW, hope you’re doing well. Haven’t talked with you for awhile.
August 14th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
I’ve followed this blog from the outset. There are times it seems rather “academic” in nature - more like a college debate with no side having any real involvement in the subject, just debating a researched or opinioned topic.
Perhaps it’s the cross-lining aspect of our business that gets in the way of using real, recent experiences, but has anyone recently used the “business opportunity” approach focused on DISCLOSING in the conversation to (1) gain an appointment and (2) at the outset of the “plan” the FACT they’re in the direct sells, networking marketing, mlm industry utilizing the Quixtar - Amway Global opportunity to reach their goals in life.
I have. I found the interest or lack of interest to be completely related to their goals in life and the way they choose to make them happen. The QBOB was not only a part of the presentation, it was the presentation. Works just fine.
If blog is really just a “debating society” or cross-lining” is what happens when you share real life experience and therefore shouldn’t be part of this blog then no response required. If not, I’m open to comment.
August 14th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
RDK - I don’t “defend” the BFYTODS model so much as “attack” the idea that it’s somehow illegal or immoral. I think it’s an inefficient use of resources (ie human capital - a fired up IBO), but to claim it’s illegal or a “product based pyramid” simply isn’t true. I don’t stand for poor thinking, poor knowledge, and poor logic whether I agree with the topic or not.
The BFYTODS model not being illegal has nothing to do with the current or recent FTC . Even back in the 70s in FTC vs Amway it was very clear the court knew most folk were buying for themselves. It was such a non-issue it didn’t even garner attention. The FTC letter “clarifing” it a few years back was because the anti-MLM crowd had latched on to it as a mantra and have been spreading the myth. Unfortunately even some Amway supporters seem to have been suckered in by them. I also don’t think Democrats have much to gain by attacking Amway. From what I’ve read DeVos and Van Andel are/were respected on both sides of the aisle. Atatcking Amway alienates not only the many non-republican IBOs and employees (an employee told me that many many Alticor employees (perhaps even a majority!) are actually Democrat, but it also by association attacks the whole direct selling industry. Too many voters to alienate, and not enough that care about Amway. Just like all the hoohaa about the name change, I think folk have a way overblown perspective about how important “Amway” is to the average person. It’s just not on the radar for most folk.
Chuck - yes, the “pride” issue absolutely applies to IBO leadership as well. I do recall however some Louie Carillo (EDC) stories where he’s upfront about being with Amway. In one classic tape he talks about one of his daughters friends parents coming around for a kids party or something. The parent looks around at the huge house and grounds and says something like … “so, I here you’re in Amway” “yup” replies Louie. Looking around again the guy says “well … what else do you do?”. Louie replies “does it look like I need to do anything else?”
With regards the “curiosity approach” I think we need to define exactly what we’re talking about here, I’ve seen it used to describe a wide variety of approaches, some of which I’d consider unethical and reputation damaging, others of which I think are just fine.
August 14th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
DRO, not sure if I understand you fully. Some here are just in for the debate. Some are here to share experiences, and some are sitting on their butts. And some are out of the business but feel compelled to come back and throw a stone or two.
Have you read all the threads? There’s a lot of variety. Personally I DON’T use the business opportunity approach but rather a product focus approach — business opportunity or customer — where I DO disclose up front, at the beginning, voluntarily, before I’m asked, in the “QI stage”, if you will, when seeking permission to share either the product focus or the business opportunity, that my business and my products are Amway Global-affiliated, as you do (I don’t use Quixtar any more). That’s been shared on this blog as a recent, real, experience.
One of the reasons to “blog” or comment on a blog is to “influence.” There are a lot of people who read but don’t participate, from system people to non-system people to corporate people to people researching this business to people who are stalled, disappointed, bitter, whatever. It’s also a place to sharpen one’s ideas or have them sharpened, even shot down, for you.
It’s also a place to inform, provide information, and hopefully influence best practice of others who may or may not be crossline, as I’ve tried to do via my many Personalized Health-related posts.
As to “just a debating society,” yes, that would be a waste of time.
August 14th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
rdknyvr #37:
Thanks for the comment - in addition to the other types of comments (important and welcomed by me as a reader of every post by every personality each with its own point of view no matter how driven) this thread seemed, to me, to demand some real life examples.
You may have always used the approach you described so there’d be no comparison, But, if not, how has the response to what you’re currently doing and, if any, “google” activity impacted your results?
Not so sure a good “debate” isn’t part of “influence” or “what if” theory isn’t also important, but an “in the living room” story sure makes it real.
August 14th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
ibofb, the biggest problem with the bfy model is that the upline often puts INCREDIBLE pressure on the ibos to buy nearly EVERY product put out by the company.
People get in the business to ’save money and teach others to do the same’ and find themselves shelling out hundreds of extra dollars for “premium” shaving cream, premium coffee, premium vitamins, nutrition bars, etc.
Plus they are pressured to buy the diapers, potato chips, ketchup, cereals, plastic bags, asprin, beef jerkey, lightbulbs, etc. These product are often inferior to the grocery store name brands, yet are Cadillac priced.
IBOs are told not to invite your upline to do an in-home meeting unless they are “totally 100 percent.”
And some abitious Diamonds even get up on stage and tell ibos that a family of five should be doing 300 PV per month on Nutrilite alone.
Plus IBOs are expected to buy the NEW water treatment system to replace their old one.
Anyway, it seems more attractive to me to build a solid retail business and to be a consistant consumer of a fair number of products of your choosing, as long as you feel they are quality products at a fair price.
August 15th, 2008 at 12:01 am
#38 DRO,
You’re correct, nothing like a personal “this is what happened yesterday afternoon” story to underline a point or approach. Just like when I emailed your privately a couple weeks ago and caught you in the middle of doing a home meeting.
I’ve been quite fascinated by the lack of commentary on most of my “personalized health” posts. I’ve even contacted some frequent bloggers here and asked if they’ve even done their Gensona tests, and have yet to find one that has!!! A couple weeks ago I more or less hassled a couple different people to put them on their Ditto delivery schedules, so we’ll see what happens.
I’d be interested to know, for example, if anyone bothered to download any of the free resources noted in my June 23 post… One of the most valuable resources was actually an MP3 that costs about $17 to download, but so totally worth it.
I’ve no problem with OTHERS continuing to do a generalized business opp presentation, but I’ve lost interest in building that kind of an Amway/Quixtar business. Interestingly, companies with recent strong growth — like Arbonne — have done so via a strong PRODUCT focus… something concrete, visualizable, and sharply focused. It would seem that this fall Amway will be introducing tools and possibly websites that allow us to also take a defined, focused product line-based approach, at least for Wellness and Beauty.
As to your Google question, possibly because I state right up front with people how my business approach is different, they are perhaps innoculated for whatever they might subsequently see on the net… whatever they see complained about there, it’s not what I’m doing or what I’m offering to them. So to be honest, as far as I can tell, the net and Googling hasn’t been a significant issue for me.
There are still some things I’m working through so that’s as much as I’ll say for now. But clearly, a generalized product-based focus, big picture solution, that considers the selling of a highly desirable intangible but with associated products of high quality that facilitate the realization of that intangible, etc. is one valid way to approach building an Amway business. Big picture vs. “selling products,” ie. cases of water, or energy drinks, or workout recovery cookies, or whatever the latest stand-alone product happens to be, however good it might be.
August 15th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
#37 rdknyvr:
We are faced with the same challenge all businesses have in connecting with their tagert market. Example: do you sell transportation, a particular model of car, some distinct feature, benefit or incentive or strive for a pure emotionalized response to engage a potential “buyer” in a dialogue intended to “close” the sale?
For some “opportunity” is what they are looking for. For others it may be a specific product soloutions. In either case, the brand must be disclosed.
I have found the QBOB to be an effective, brief, easy to read and discuss “tool” with great visuals of opportunity, product, support, compensation and people. As a companion the Success From Home is a good way to illustrate scope of the opportunity and our products. Using the appropriate LOA media is important to position their contribution to the structure of our business and value of role they play in the concept of association and education.
For myself, looking for “opportunity” responders and immediately making it real with solid product awareness is what gets me making contact with people.
August 15th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
[…] Global appears to be taking steps to encourage more retailing. They still need to lower product prices quite a bit and better […]
August 18th, 2008 at 12:53 am
Chuck,
I disagree on your Points 4 and 5. I’ll deal with #5 tonight, and the other later.
In my opinion, core line products are not overpriced if IBOs are,
A. Taught how to sell
B. Taught that you need to sell
C. Taught the features and benefits that give value to each of our products so they can apply the selling skills to those products
D. Provided with necessary support materials and services
E. Taught how to use those materials
F. Make it easy for the customer to reorder
Neither the Systems nor the Corporation has done much of any of the above. However, things are improving.
All I can say to back this up are my own personal experiences, and this is not to brag.
At the peak of my retail sales, before a personal family tragedy changed things, I did,
? 29,700 PV
? $67,800 BV
? $80,000 in total sales
? This came from a total of 767 customer orders that year
? Average PV per order was 38.74
? 87% of the orders were at Suggested Retail
? 76% of the orders were reorders
? The total retail profit earned was $15,700
? Total profit and Performance Bonus from all retail sales was $32, 600
I define retail customers as non-IBO purchasers. This includes ex-IBOs.
My customers call me to order; I don’t chase after them for orders. These customers come from many different geographies and income levels. The point here is that customers buy our products at our retail prices because they like the products. All IBOs have to do is introduce the product and get the customer to try it if it’s a products the customer needs.
We should not change the Plan or our pricing levels until we first fix the parts that are broken.
August 18th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Sorry about the question marks, above. They were bullets in my word processor before cut and pasting.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
Chuck, just a brief point with regard to the data above that Orrin W claimed to have never made more than $750K per year with Quixtar, as an EDC. Not surprising, actually, when you consider that his focus was on generating TEAM training materials sales, and that TEAM in general had one of the lowest, if not the lowest, PV per IBO ratios in the corporation. And that they claimed retail sales were next to impossible, yadda yadda yadda. So his data is worth putting into perspective, looking at the whole picture.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:45 am
#45 - rdknyvr -
That was precisely my point, but I can see where it might make someone think that the income potential was limited in Quixtar. But then again, I wouldn’t mind having my income limited to $750K annually….
August 19th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
#43 The Big Apple
I have been working at my retail sales and am currently averaging between 300-600pv/month in retail sales. Do you mind giving us a few pointers on how you were able to generate such awesome sales? Also, how did you maintain that and generate 76% in re-orders?
Thanks, I appreciate it!
August 21st, 2008 at 12:34 am
“Speaking of Amway, how have the recent changes in Quixtar North America and Amway Global affected your belief in the business and your future in it?”
I believe more in this business today than I did when I first registered because it is a more sustainable business model that they are promoting and supporting.
Getting IBOs profitable (a mere couple hundred bucks) in the first 30 days needs to be the focus for the longevity of this business.
The First Circle must work. Translation:Each IBOship must be profitable, even just few hundred dollars a month, on it’s own, independant of any other IBOship.
Otherwise, there is nothing worth duplicating.
And it must happen sooner than later.
Otherwise the new IBO will quickly disappear.
Independant profitability within the first 30 days.
Otherwise the business will fall apart.
August 22nd, 2008 at 10:27 am
Bridgett, I really like your key point — 30 days to net profitability. Some of the support groups — iTEAMUSA for example — make the point that you can be profitable in 90 days following their training, but even 90 days is a long time. If the focus is on 30 days, then you’ll probably GET profitability in 30 days.
August 27th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
Chuck, another excellent post. I finally got time to carefully read it in its entirety. Well done, and thank you for taking the time to address these issues so eloquently. I too am excited about the company’s transformation, about network marketing, and about the incredible possibilities for my own business. There are many good companies out there but I am very happy to have chosen to be a part of Amway.
#47 Visioneer
Consider Kim Klaver’s approach from her book “If My Product’s So Great, How Come I Can’t Sell It?”. She shows you how to get rid of the seller talk that turns off buyers in today’s skeptical market, and to lead with your own hot button. I’m using her approach to market the L.O.C. cleaning products and I’m very pleased with the results. Take a look and see if it’s a match for you.
August 28th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Thanks jr_brady!
I’ll take a look at it. I also just ordered Joe Pici’s book, “Sell Naked Over the Phone”. Unfortunately its not available on Barnes and Nobles, have to order it from Amazon.